Fork control overload!
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Fork control overload!
Post by lorifrank on Sept 9, 2007, 12:11am
Picked up my new '08 specked out Heckler today (Sat).
After all the horror stories I read and received about Santa Cruz shipment times, I was fully expecting to wait out the fall and winter for my new ride,.. instead four weeks to the day is all it took. Rode the bike for a few hours on local trails with the controls set straight from the shop, and the bike felt plush... maybe too plush.
Honestly, with nine seperate controls, (low speed control, lockout lever, rebound, preload, compression damping on the vanilla and propedal & bottom out resistance, rebound, boost valve and coil tensioner on the DHX 5.0) I've really no clue to what I should be altering, I know this seems simple to most of you, but it's all a tad confusing to me... I'll be on the trails tomorrow, and will fudge about on the go.... I'm open to suggestions folks.
P.S. I did try the Fox owner's manual CD, and it really offers minimal specific info, mainly filled with generic sales pitch babel.
Frank
Re: Fork control overload!
Post by thumbies on Sept 9, 2007, 1:51pm
Frank,
Are you the same fellow that crashed on a intermediate TP ride and had to visit the hospital afterwards?
Assuming you are, you have moved from a cheap(ish) hardtail with a cheap(ish) fork on it to an extremely plush type of bike. What does the Heckler have for travel 5.5-6"? And you also now have a top-drawer fork which is right up there in the plushness category (i have the same fork if yours is the 140mm travel, 32 mm model)
A good starting point is to set your sag (the amount our suspension compresses under your weight) to 25% of the total travel. This is easy for the fork as you can simply put a zip-tie on the stantion, push it all the way down, sit on your bike and get off and check how far the zip tie moved up. for 140mm fork thats about 35mm (lockout has to be off BTW). If the travel is less than 35 mm, you need to swap to a lighter spring (Fox usually included 3 springs with their fork and swapping is pretty easy). if it sags just a little more than 35 then you can try turning the preload knob to reduce the sag. Generally i turn the rebound knob 5 to 7 clicks clockwise from full fast.
The DHX is a little more complicated. Ok, its probably a lot more complicated but an easy starting point is getting the preload set up so that you have about 25% sag. If the shock's stroke is 2" (wihch is likely) then you are looking for 1/2 " of sag.
I would ignore bottom-out resistance for the time being unless you are planning on hucking off your roof! If you are finding that the bike has too much bob while pedaling, you might try increasing the pro-pedal.
Above all things, remember that this is a kick-ass, long travel full suspension rig. Its gonna feel a bit wierd in the beginning, but you will adapt to riding it. Tweaking the suspension is kind of a learn-as-you-go thing. Once you get it bsically where it should be, and you get comfortable with riding the new bike, then you can fine tune it to your liking.
Its a good idea to keep a running list of changes you make, and only make one change at a time.
Have fun.
Dave
Re: Fork control overload!
Post by lorifrank on Sept 9, 2007, 2:09pm
Thanks for the advice Dave, you're way more informative than the Fox manual/CD.
FWIW... I was the tall big fellow on the Trek Fuel 90 riding directly behind the 'casualty' at the TP ride you mention, So in essence I'm going from 3" front and 2" back to 5.5" front and back, a big improvement.
thanks again,
Frank
Re: Fork control overload!
Post by jackp42 on Sept 12, 2007, 10:29pm
I agree with Dave that the long suspension travel is going to feel a little wierd to start with. You initial reaction may be to stiffen the dampening/spring rate up to try and make it feel more familiar. Also, a lot of people think that this makes the bike faster. This may provide instant satisfaction but will limit the benefits of having a long travel bike. I beieve there is a lot more to be gained by learning to do things like pedalling smoothly instead of cranking up the propedal, controlling your position on the bike and riding smoothly. This way you can ride efficiently and in control with the most traction and the best ride. The more you keep your tires glued to the ground, the more traction you have. Stiffening everything up gets ride of traction. Also, being able to compress either suspension at will can help you with things like lofting a wheel.
Dave suggested 25% sag. That is a good number for a stiffer feel and general XC use. If you want to maximize traction, I think around 35% sag is a good number. Negative travel is very important for traction. If you are running a coil fork or shock, you may find that as you reduce preload to increase sag, you may have to run a high spring rate to deal with bottom out resistance. The balance between these 2 can help you determine the best combination. Avoid trying to use too much compression dampening to control bottoming out as it will make the suspension harsh.
Besides preload and spring rate, the most important setting for dampening is rebound. If you use too much you will find that traction is very poor. If you run too little, it can kick back (in the case of the rear it can feel like it is trying to through you over the bars). Compression dampening is less important. Try to run as little as you can but adding some can help settle the bike when pedaling as well as brake dive.
Another route or option is to contact those in the club that are riding the same bike with the same suspension and see how they have set them up. I believe both Scott and Lee have Hecklers with DHX coils on them. Not sure what shock Steve has and I am pretty sure Brad has a 5th Element. Though they may be different weights, the dampening settings should be reasonably close.
Like Dave said, make 1 adjustment at a time and make notes on what works and what doesn't. This way, you will learn to feel what each adjustment does and can tailor the settings to suit your preferences. Remember when doing this that some adjustments are for low speed circuits which influence things like bob when pedaling and plushness, and others are for high speed circuits that affect how it reacts to quick hits like hitting bumps and landing. I'd recommend you go for a ride by yourself with adjustment tools and a note pad in hand and ride the same piece of trail and make incremental adjustments. Pick a short piece of trail that covers most of your riding situations or do this at a few locations. I find that if you go on a group ride you never end up making adjustments.
Have fun exploring your new bike and its capabilities.
I know I have being enjoying my Supermoto more every ride as I learn to ride a bike with a far more active suspension and a lot more travel.
Jack
Re: Fork control overload!
Post by lorifrank on Sept 13, 2007, 9:53pm
Thanks Jack,
Unfortunately I did what both you and Dave both warned me about. On my second ride (before Dave posted his reply) I changed most of the settings and found myself almost getting thrown off the bike riding over a rooty section by what I'm assuming is too high a rebound setting. I'll take my bike to East Side and get Eric to reset the suspension, and then will follow your advice and make notes on the gradual changes.
thanks again,
Frank